My Sex Life is None of Your Business!!! Or is it?

Social Norms and Sexual Norms

What women do with their privates is no one else’s business and it doesn’t harm anyone as long as the sex is consensual and safe right? I disagree. I think some people are oblivious to the fact that there are sexual norms (it’s intro social psychology and sociology). Sometimes these people even propose that basically anything sexual is normal as long as it’s consensual. They don’t realize that they are establishing the new sexual norm of ‘anything goes and everything is okay’ and that there is something ‘abnormal’ about you if you think otherwise.

“Social Norms are the expectations about how people should act. Usually social norms are created by having the same sort of certain behaviors among social group members. Also, there are usually negative consequences when someone violates a social norm…Norms do serve a purpose, as they allow people to expect the events that will occur in a particular setting. This allows people to prepare themselves for being in that situation. Uncertainty is a big source of psychological stress. Norms allow us to reduce the uncertainty that we might otherwise feel in a situation, or leading up to a situation if we knew nothing about how that situation would unfold.”(source; also see Wikipedia definition)

In other words, once a norm for promiscuity is set, both men and women will come to expect it and many will conform to it. In the past it was only men and promiscuous women saying sex was fun, it’s no big deal etc. and it was easier to say no because they advocated out of self-interest. You see, saying it’s okay to be promiscuous, women should not be judged or shamed, and that some women enjoy the activity with no ill effects is one thing. But when an ideological group, Third Wave feminists, state sleeping around is empowered, that it helps women figure out what they like in bed, or it shows they are not repressed by the patriarchy, then that’s a different story. It’s associating promiscuity with positive things that many women want because they want to be empowered, satisfied with sex, and not slaves to men. When Third Wave feminists (who some women identify with, respect, and trust are looking out for their best interests) imply that being promiscuous has these benefits, women may start questioning themselves and start sleeping around against their better judgement. Some women assume that feminists are not advocating sexual practices for ideological self-interest while disregarding the affect these practices have on individual women–they just want what’s best for you right?  ”"Feminism is not the freedom to act like a dickhead,”…”These women are individualists, not feminists” (source). They don’t care that hold outs may experience prude-shaming by women implying that they are repressed, frigid, too uptight, too old fashioned, insecure, not giving their bodies what they want, missing out, not free thinkers, something is wrong with them, or they won’t be able to keep a man (similar to the things men say to coerce women into having sex..hmmm).

For example, if most women sleep with men on the first date then that becomes the norm, and men will pressure other women to “be normal” and have sex on the the first date. This in turn will confirm and perpetuate the norm. Feminists supporting promiscuity makes it that much harder to hold out. Personally, I’m more concerned about protecting abstainers from pressure than about hurting the feelings (i.e., shaming or judging) of people who knew the risks, ignored the warnings, and went full steam ahead anyway. “Norms can be self-perpetuating, as once they are established they will often continue, even when those who established them have long since left the situation” (source). So if promiscuous women get married (maybe even by lying to their husbands about their sex number), get old, or stop dating, then other single women are left with the norm! Future generations will suffer because of other women’s actions and many young girls are already caving to the pressure.

The following articles, “Has the Price of Sex Bottomed Out” and Feminism Produced Price Drop for Sex, Price Hike for Commitment discuss the work of social psychologists who study the “sex economy”. What women do in the bedroom becomes known by other men and women and this effects the sex economy–what men and women have to do in order to get sex. In the past, men would have to commit to women in order to get sex. Now they don’t have to go on a date or even buy a lady a drink. This lowers men’s motivation to have monogamous relationships or marriage because they don’t need to do those things to get sex anymore. This is fine for women who want to be single but lousy for those who want relationships and marriage. People discuss their sex lives and people observe what others do and this affects the sex economy and sexual norms. Remember, every man you sleep with knows what you did so it’s not a secret! You can not dictate what the norms are and it doesn’t matter if they are right, wrong, fair, or unfair! A norm is established by having most people do something. The only way to change a norm is to change people’s behaviour or by convincing them that certain behaviours are not as common as they believe. Norms can be based on inaccurate estimations (e.g., maybe not as many people are hooking up as you think).

Male Identification

“Understanding where sexual norms come from, or more specifically, who drives them, often provides an explanation for why they are the way they are. Usually, social/cultural constructs are made by people in power, typically white, middle/upper class heterosexual men” (source). Makes you wonder why feminists are supporting the same promiscuity that is supported by many men for women they don’t plan to marry. Maybe these feminists are male identified?

“Male identified:  aspects of society and personal attributes that are highly valued are associated with men, while devalued attributes and social activities are associated with women. There is a sense of threat to the social structure of patriarchies when these gendered associations are destabilized–and the response in patriarchy is to increase the level of control, often by exerting control over women (as well as groups who are devalued by virtue of race, ethnicity, sexuality, or class; source).”

 That’s confusing! Who is male identified really? The women who reject anything feminine and are always trying to do what men do, even when those behaviors are negative? If many men want promiscuous women (prior to finding someone non-promiscuous for marriage) then isn’t encouraging women to give in to that pressure actually supporting the patriarchy? How is encouraging women to use men for their bodies, the same way men use women for their bodies, not supporting the patriarchy? Are woman male identified if they support old fashioned behaviours that they think are beneficial or even protective to women? If a woman thinks being promiscuous is being like a man and wants to protect women from STDs, unwanted pregnancies, psychological damage, shaming etc. then is she supporting the patriarchy or against it? Due to feminism the latter women are called brainwashed tools of patriarchy while the former are supported as progressive, liberated, ideal modern women.

Raunch Culture and Feminism

I think this all boils down to opposition to raunch feminism. This is that part of modern Third Wave feminism that condones women wearing next to nothing, getting huge tattoos, going topless, porn, stripping, prostitution, drinking till you are black out drunk, smoking, doing drugs, cursing, fighting, and sleeping around because those things are personal choices and we are supposed to celebrate that women are free to make these choices. YAY! In their eyes women drinking, smoking, doing drugs, getting huge tattoos, and other things men used to do much more than women is somehow empowering and not male identification. Somehow they think women wearing next to nothing on the street, in magazines, in movies, and on TV is not giving men exactly what they want at the expense of women. Somehow their negating marriage and monogamous relationships, in favor of women providing men with sex on demand and raising babies alone, is not giving men what they want at the expense of women. All of us opposed to these behaviours are dismissed as religious zealots, right wing nut jobs who want women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, or sexually repressed, slut-shaming, mean girls.

Here’s a thought, if you think women are so great why don’t you encourage men to BE MORE LIKE WOMEN! Why are you not encouraging men to stop pressuring starlets to pose half naked in the videos and magazines they create? Why not tell men they should be drinking, doing drugs, and smoking less since women do it less and we live longer due to fewer health problems? Why not encourage men to commit less crime and get into fewer fights because women don’t do these things so they are less likely to go to jail? Why not tell men to value relationships over promiscuity, see women as more than sex objects, and look forward to marriage the way women do? Of course there will be a push back from men (e.g., Men’s Rights groups) who don’t want to change but there are also men who are pushing back against raunch culture! These behaviours have negative consequences for women AND men so why not discourage them in everyone if you want equality and care about women AND men. Or are you so male identified that you can find no wrong with men’s behaviour and will only love yourself if you are exactly like the stereotypical male?

Conclusion

Do I think sex norms can change? Yes I do. People tried to change it with chastity ring programs. Also, schools in the U.S. encouraged abstinence (I think they should have taught safer sex too). There are also religious groups and people who will never support raunch culture. I think that studies like the ones reported on Hooking Up Smart will also help in correcting false beliefs about the prevalence of raunchy behaviours and promiscuity. It will be a hard fight but there will always be people opposed to this sort of thing, there just seems to be fewer right now. It is also a big problem with the media that seems to support raunch culture. Having sex immediately after a first kiss, no matter the location, especially while drunk, is also becoming the norm in movies and on TV. It is condoned and normalized and this influences people. Plus, people lie! Women lie about how many partners they have had to men and other women, even though they say they are not ashamed of sleeping around and there is nothing wrong with it. Men lie about what other women have done with them in bed and how quickly women slept with them in order to convince new women to do what they want.

Also, a final word about men because we can’t blame women for something without also blaming men now can we? (sarcasm). If men would stop caring about how many sex partners women have then this whole problem would be decreased! If men considered  women with 50 partners, former porn stars, or former prostitutes to be girlfriend/wife material and no difference from women with 10 partners or less, then this problem would be reduced. Then, women who want to be girlfriends/wives would not worry about the affect sex would have on their chances for long-term relationships or marriage. If high quality men don’t mind marrying women who they know are promiscuous then the sex norm against marrying promiscuous women would change. So I suggest that instead of feminists supporting promiscuity they should focus on convincing men that promiscuous women make good wives and girlfriends and that there is something wrong with men if they are uncomfortable with that. Make them think that they are repressed and insecure instead of the women who don’t like casual sex. Unfortunately, this will not entirely eliminate the problem because there would still be women who are uncomfortable having sex with men they don’t know well, men who don’t care about them, or when they don’t have a monogamous relationship.

What other women do in bed is your business if the men you meet are holding these women up as examples of what is “normal” and pressuring you to be normal. I also think feminists are misusing their power. They should stick to the idea that all women should be respected and protected instead of holding up promiscuous women, strippers, porn stars, and prostitutes as examples of empowered women who are accepting and celebrating their sexual freedom in a healthy way. These women are the new sexual role models competing with the old fashioned feminine role model. These women have influence and even if they don’t know it, even if they don’t want it, they are influencing the sex norms in society.

Related Articles:

Based on a Center for Disease Control 2007 study of 6,237 adults, aged 20 to 59, American men have an average of 7 sex partners in their lifetime and women have an average of 4! 29% of men and 9% of women report having more than 15 partners. 46% of Black men and 13% of Black women had 15 or more partners in a lifetime which is more than other groups. However, this is based on data collected more than a decade ago from 1999 to 2002, and this is the most recent data I could find. (source)

Generation Sex as norms shift

Do-me feminism and the rise or raunch

Feminists in anti-raunch culture revolt

Feminism and raunch culture

Today’s ultimate feminists are chicks in crop tops

EXCELLENT Hooking up smart articles: (many are based on research)

Witnessing the painful fallout of female promiscuity

The sex risks for women no one likes to talk about

Are women cut out to be friends with benefits

Studies reveal players like their women dumb, drunk, and easy

Sex: Men desire it,women control the supply

The essential truth about female promiscuity

It’s about time: The new reverse double standard

Are Feminists Against Marriage?

There as an interesting conversation on another blog about a horrible new reality show starring a (c)rapper and his 10 baby mamas and 11 children. Yes you heard that right, a show about a promiscuous man who constantly impregnates 17-19 year old women who all live in a house with him! Well I made a comment that many feminists are against marriage and would see this arrangement as ideal especially if the man went away. Someone accused me of speaking "nonsense" and ordered me to give her sources to support my argument. Well I posted two videos but that was all I was willing to do because I'm not that stranger's slave and she should be empowered enough to do a simple Google search (it's funny but when I posted a video of feminist quotes she actually refused to view it even though she was the one who asked for sources!). It's a waste of time trying to educate such people, she doesn't even know what some members of her own group think.

Would I say I'm anti-feminist, no since I do agree with many of the things they do and have done. But I have the right to talk about the things I don't agree with. I thought about calling myself an egalitarian but after reading a bit about it I don't think it describes me either because I don't believe all lifestyle choices are equal, I think some people are better at some jobs/roles than others, some people earn privileges and prestige, and some people (e.g., children) can't handle the same rights and responsibilities as others. If I say I'm an egalitarian then I would be placing myself with the same people who have no problem with the (c)rapper's lifestyle, being promiscuous, taking drugs, getting black out drunk, not taking responsibility etc. and "respects" everyone else's lifestyle. That is so not me!

Other people often argue that people shouldn't bother to get married because so many marriages end in divorce. When I hear that I always think, "so what if they end in divorce?" I mean, a lot of people fail or have to drop out of university, but I didn't let that stop me from going and trying. If I had listened to the people saying school was a waste of time, so many people fail etc. then I would not have gotten my degrees. A lot of people are let go from their jobs so should I not bother to work? Some people never get into their desired career so should they not even try? Many people change careers 2-3 times in their life and may only stay in a job for 10 years, so was that a total waste of time? Didn't those jobs fulfill their needs for a period of time? Even if I get married and it ends after 20 years, so what? 20 years is a long time and I want that experience. In twenty years I will be 54 and right now I'm not thinking about what my life will be like at 54, I'm focused on my present experiences and my desire for present happiness. Even though up to 1/3 marriages in Canada end in divorce prior to 30 years, who says I won't be in the other 2/3 that don't divorce? Some people let fear of failure prevent them from doing things in life, they may be underachievers, yet when it comes to marriage people act like these people are brave to not get married out of fear of divorce.

Well back to the feminist arguments, these may be considered "radical feminists" but many of them are well known, they have written books I have actually heard of, these books are often read in universities, and many of these women are lecturers, professors, and heads of women's studies departments. So I think I'm just going to post links to articles so that you can read and decide for yourself if there are some feminists who are against marriage and would rather have women become single mothers with no involvement from the fathers. Get mad at them, not me because I'm just providing links to things they have said that are readily available on the Internet and in their writings.

I did find one interesting quote stating that feminists need to tone down on the anti-marriage rhetoric because it puts them at odds with  liberal feminists and most other women...good advice. Let's add anti-marriage messages to my list of other reasons why I can't support Third Wave feminism and even some earlier wave feminism (also on the list: the ignoring of non-White women, man-hating statements, promoting promiscuity as liberating and empowering, endorsing single motherhood as though it's easy, and the rejection and ridicule of feminine women, women who try to look attractive, women who wear makeup and dresses, women who want to have relationships with men, women who would rather be stay at home moms than career women, women who don't want to compete with men, and women who don't want to act and look like men).

Articles about anti-marriage statements made by feminists:

• Marriage and family: an ideological background: EXCELLENT! Apparently nowadays believing in marriage and having intact nuclear families is "conservative" when it used to just be "normal". Interesting that some feminists, such as Betty Friedan of The Feminine Mystique and Germaine Grier, were against marriage and their work was used to argue against marriage but later on they changed their minds! Some women spouting this stuff may end up changing their minds after millions of women listened and acted on their teachings.
• Who wants to marry a feminist? Very interesting! When some feminists got married some other feminists called them traitors. 
• Young, feminist, and...married
• Can a person be a feminist and still believe in marriage?  Really good except the last two paragraphs. "Moderate, mainstream feminists have long rejected this animus against marriage; the vast majority of such feminists either are married or intend to marry...Radical feminists...seek to undermine the nuclear family of married father, mother, and children, which they label the “patriarchal family.” As feminist leader Betty Friedan has warned, this anti-marriage agenda places radical feminists profoundly at odds with the family aspirations of mainstream feminists and most other American women."
• Criticism of marriage on Wikipedia (there is a part about feminist criticisms)
• The case against marriage
• Desperate feminist wives: Article describes large study showing that housewives are happier than women who have to work. "But the most interesting data may be that the women who strongly identify as progressive—the 15 percent who agree most with feminist ideals—have a harder time being happy than their peers, according to an analysis that has been provided exclusively to Slate. Feminist ideals, not domestic duties, seem to be what make wives morose. Progressive married women—who should be enjoying some or all of the fruits that Freidan lobbied for—are less happy, it would appear, than women who live as if Friedan never existed." WOW!
• Straw feminists setting fire to marriage material: This is a woman giving her strong opinion.

I Think Promiscuous Men are Gross Too

It's puzzling whenever someone says they don't think women should be promiscuous and someone comes out and asks, "why aren't you talking about promiscuous men too, they always get a pass." I think they need to get used to the concept that people often focus on one issue at a time because the circumstances are different so they can not easily be combined with other issues! This is the case with promiscuity, the situation for men and the consequences are different from that of women. Yes, yes, yes it's an unfair double standard but that is today's reality. You can live in reality or fairy tale land, but the rest of the world will not act according to your fairy tale script.

Also, I think that there is a common belief (maybe true maybe false) that women are more able to control their sex drive than men (e.g., studies that say men think about sex every 15 seconds). There is this belief that men are more easily aroused and able to have sex with someone without any intimacy. These ideas may be wrong but most people believe this. Therefore it makes sense that people would try to talk to women if they feel women are more capable of saying no. It reminds me of the debate over having birth control pills for men, many women don't want it because they don't trust men to actually use it. Well, many people don't trust men to be able to say no to promiscuous women but they know women often turn down promiscuous men. So they instead try to convince women to not be promiscuous and to say no to men instead of the reverse.

More importantly, promiscuous men don't always get a pass, especially not with women.Why are you ignoring all the women who are turned off and upset with promiscuous men? Do they not count? Just because some men think these guys are cool that fact that most women don't means nothing? Stop saying men always get a pass for sleeping around because that is absolutely not true because many women don't like it. Just as men don't want relationships with promiscuous women, women don't want relationships with promiscuous men!

These are the reasons why I think promiscuous men are gross and I don't want to hang out with them or date them:

1. Promiscuous men are only interested in you for sex. They don't care about you as a human being and they just want to use you for their needs. They are no better than someone who wants to use you for your money. They see you as a sex object and not a human being with feelings (or they just don't care about your feelings). They have no respect for you. This is just cold and heartless and who wants to associate with such a person.
2. Promiscuous men will pretend they want a relationship with you but really they only want sex. They will talk about your future together, flatter you, and make you hopeful but it is all an act. They are con artists and pick up artists. Many use the same lines on different women once they come up with a winning routine. They are liars and fakes. They entice girls with the promise of a relationship (what these women want) but dump them once they get sex (what these men really want). It's like agreeing to purchase something from a salesman and they give you an entirely different product.
3. Promiscuous men pressure and beg women to do something they don't want to do. They are specially skilled in convincing women that it's okay to have sex with them because everyone is doing it (lie), it's not a big deal (lie), it will be great (often a lie), and it's normal (entirely subjective). These men will pressure, beg, and push and push until women give in to what they initially said no to. They are the ultimate peer pressurers and manipulators. This is why it's hard to even be friends with promiscuous men because, especially when you are alone, they will try to have sex with you when you aren't even expecting it. You don't feel safe and relaxed around them because they are scheming to get you into bed. Beware of the types who keep trying to get you drunk, it's so that your inhibitions are lowered and you will give in to their pressure. They can be borderline rapists sometimes because they don't care about you and want sex from you no matter what.
4. Promiscuous men are irresponsible because some get women pregnant, don't care if they have gotten women pregnant, or don't know if they have multiple children walking around. This is being totally irresponsible and indifferent. Many of these promiscuous men don't like to wear condoms I guess because they are so wrapped up in how good sex feels without one. I wish I could find the article, but there was one about three men who had 100 children combined and did not pay child support for any of them. In the news interview some of the women did not know the other women existed. Sometimes if you ask a man if he has any kids he will joke, "not that I know of", well YOU SHOULD KNOW and it's not a joke! I think that condoning the promiscuity of men and men just using women as sex objects is a major reason why there are so many out of wedlock children. The men did not bother to get to know or become emotionally attached to the mothers and since they only wanted sex, their responsibility ended after the sex act. It doesn't matter to them if a child was a result since they did not plan on making a child.
5. Promiscuous men are often cheaters. They lie to women and pretend they are monogamous but they are sleeping with other women. These men do not make good partners because one woman can never satisfy them. So they lie and cheat. This endangers the women if he catches an STD. It ruins relationships all the time and often the man will say, "It was just sex. It didn't mean anything." When feminists argue that sex is no big deal then men can use this excuse when they cheat. If I know a man has had many sex partners I don't trust him and will not date him. The man has shown that he has a huge sexual appetite and has needed sex with many women. How can he possibly be satisfied with one woman? Plus, since he has had sex so many times he may be way more experienced than you so you will not satisfy him. Or he may have a preference for inexperienced women and once you sleep with him enough you will no longer be "innocent" enough for him. Either way, no one will convince me that a guy who has slept with over 100 women, often in one night stands, will be satisfied with one woman for a long period of time. I just won't trust such a man. 
6. Promiscuous men will not protect you from lecherous men. They see this as interfering with another man's "game". So these men will sit back and watch you get harassed or even worse and never interfere. These men will not stand up and say their friend should not cheat, take home some girl from the bar, use a girl for sex and dump her etc. You do not want your man to hang out with such men because they will condone and maybe even pressure your man to be as promiscuous as they are. Promiscuous men peer pressure other men to just use women for sex. They make fun of men who don't want to approach a woman and who have few sex partners. 
7. Promiscuous men often brag about their sex partners and can ruin a woman's reputation. You can not trust these men to keep quiet and although they had sex with you, they will tell others that you are a slut and turn them against you. These men have no respect for you because you had sex with them! So they have no problem telling the world about what you did and how awful you are for doing it. Do you remember John Mayer and how embarrassed Jessica Simpson was when he talked about having sex with her? Well this happens with celebrities and regular people all the time. If someone just sees you as a sex object then they don't care to protect your reputation and they will tell everyone what it was like to have sex with you. He may even encourage his friends to sleep with you so you will be "passed around". If you want a bad reputation, sleep with a promiscuous man. Promiscuous men also develop a reputation and are often called "players" or "playboys". Concerned people warn women not to date them and no one takes their relationships seriously. Their girlfriends will always be suspicious and accusing them of cheating so there will be no trust. Other men will not want these men around their women. People are surprised when promiscuous men have relationships and get married, they expect the man to cheat, and are not surprised when it happens (e.g., Kobe Bryant). 
8. Promiscuous men send the message to other men that being promiscuous is fantastic. These men will brag about how much sex they have had with different women. They will act as though this makes them better and happier than other men and some men will actually believe them. Other men will then think that the reason why they are unhappy is because they are not having lots of casual sex. So they will try to do so by lying to girls to get sex and using them as sex objects. There is a whole pick up artist (PUA) community including books, videos, seminars, and online forums dedicated to the purpose of tricking or attracting women for sex. You will probably be disgusted by many of their techniques and stories. Some of these men may actually want relationships, but the PUA role models are looked up to due to the high numbers of sex partners and encounters they have had, not for their relationships. Unfortunately, according to studies described on Hooking Up Smart and other sites, neither men or women are usually satisfied with just having sexual relationships. So these men may not be happy in the long run, especially if they end up with an STD or an unwanted baby to support. Promiscuous men downplay the positives about having relationships in favour of casual sex encounters for men. This makes it difficult for women to find men who want to have relationships and get married. 
9. Promiscuous men make other men look bad. After several experiences with promiscuous men who pretend they like you but only want sex, you may start to believe that all men are that way. You will become suspicious that when men talk about having a relationship with you and think it is just a lie to get you in bed. Then you become less trusting and open when a genuine nice guy comes around. This is what happens when women end up saying, "all men are dogs, cheaters, uncaring, and only in it for sex." Promiscuous and cheating men create these women and their innocence and openness is lost. They create bitter women. You feel like an idiot when a man tells you everything you dreamed of hearing , you give yourself to him, and he just dumps you because it was all a lie. Since you don't want this to happen again you are suspicious of every other man you know and every man you meet. This makes is harder for nice guys to get into relationships and it makes women cold towards them. So promiscuous men make it hard for men and women to start and maintain trusting relationships. When men cheat, women become suspicious of their future partners and this leads to paranoia and fights over those suspicions too. 

So as you can see I have many reasons why I think promiscuity should not be encourage or practiced by men too. In fact, I think that men being promiscuous is probably more harmful for society. Women trying to be like these men will just intensify the problem. If it's okay for women to be promiscuous then men will take advantage of that and be even more promiscuous. So I think it's best to discourage promiscuity for women AND men. Only a small minority prefer one night stands and friends with benefits to being in relationships. I would rather focus on making relationship-oriented people feel comfortable with their choice than worry about shaming the minority of people who choose to be promiscuous only for the pleasure (not due to peer pressure, low self-esteem, childhood abuse, trying to get a relationship etc.). So no, I do not support everyone's lifestyle choice and I don't have to. I disapprove of promiscuous men just as much as promiscuous women.

Empowerment or Sexism?

I just watched this video, by a feminist that totally contradicts all of the so-called feminists who act like it's empowering to sleep with as many men as you what whenever you want. Jenna Marbles said it differently but this vlogger is basically saying that some feminists may have fooled themselves into thinking being promiscuous is empowering and just embracing their sexuality (skip to 6:44 for the main point). This is why I can't get behind modern Third Wave feminism because they are often saying two completely opposing things so what am I supporting? If you support anything and everything then you really support nothing. All that stuff about "feminism just means you support equality" is way too simplistic and based too much on comparisons to men instead of just making sure women are happy and respected (i.e., different but equally valued and respected). The whole "men do it so women should be respected when they do it" argument sounds ridiculous when the behaviours in question are negative for everyone. For example, being promiscuous, drinking too much, swearing, fighting etc. are negative for men and women so why are women fighting to be respected when they do those things??? Things could be just as equal if men were encouraged to not do those things and stop seeing them as signs of masculinity! Let me put it this way, supporting promiscuity is supporting allowing men to use your body for their pleasure who don't care, respect, or want a relationship with you. Some will argue that many women get pleasure from the sex, but hey, prostitutes and porn stars get paid for their work and they might actually like it but are they not still being used? Women may say, "well I'm using the men too" but sorry, you are the ones who say we live in a patriarchal society where men are in power so no matter what, he has more power than you and is thus using you more than you are using him.

How is it possible that some people look at Lady Gaga and Katy Perry prance around half naked allowing themselves to be sex objects and they are shocked when the women say they are not feminists? (Katy Perry not a feminist video, Lady Gaga not a feminist video, Taylor Swift isn't a feminist either). Um wasn't that obvious? But to some younger women showing your body and sharing it with whomever is being an empowered woman and feminist! So basically it seems to me, being a feminist means being okay with anything other women do and doing anything you want so long as you don't shame or criticize other women, especially if they end up getting hurt! Oh actually that shaming and criticism thing is only okay  sometimes...like any time you think another woman isn't being your ideal version of a feminist or any woman criticizes or shames another woman, then you are free to tear those people apart! I find it highly amusing that feminist Naomi Wolf is criticizing Katy Perry's Part of Me video (actual VIDEO and I like this song) for the army footage when past feminists fought so hard to get women into the army!?? So hey all you military women, you are anti-feminist! (sarcasm) Yeah, I guess feminists don't need military protection? Way to honor the troops Naomi :) To me that video is totally feminist and empowering so I'm not understanding why it's being called anti-feminist (it reminds me of the film G.I. Jane).

Lol I just can't drop this Jenna Marbles issue because I just read some feminist blogs and comments about it. It really seems like there is a group of young feminists who are REALLY naive and unable to distinguish fantasy ideals from reality. These young women are saying that they don't think twice about doing things that most people, through common sense, personal experience, or hearing horror stories would never do. Or most people would not be surprised and would take some responsibility if they did these things and something negative happened. It's as though these women are incapable of weighing the pros and cons and the possible negative and positive consequences of their actions. All they do is trust other people to not harm them, and work hard to brainwash the world into thinking women are incapable of protecting themselves from harm, and therefore shouldn't even bother trying. When there is some risk (e.g., 30% risk of unpreventable harm), instead of taking the common sense route of trying to protect themselves these women decide it is pointless trying to protect themselves in any way.

It's as if they think their belief that certain things are unfair is like some sort of shield that will protect them from harm. Or they just don't think about potential harm and instead are more focused on whether others will blame them for their misfortune after. They don't even think about how awful being harmed would be to them, long term effects (or even death) and use that fear to stop them from doing risky things. So these women want and support doing WHATEVER they want and act shocked when others do WHATEVER they want that ends up hurting them. I have a strong belief that women are learning this from schools or online reading not from their parents because any caring parent warns their kids to not do potentially dangerous things. Where's the common sense? Why is there NO considering of their personal responsibility to protect themselves and just finger pointing at others to protect and respect their rights? Have they never seen the news or heard of bad things happening? How can they not imagine that some people out there don't care to protect them and actually want to hurt them? Maybe they are just being hypocrites and saying they support doing things that they would never do because they actually know those things are terribly risky!

Ok, I guess it's not helpful to criticize feminists without suggesting solutions that could change my mind about them. So I suggest: 1) Feminist leaders need to make a fact sheet about what feminism actually is, maybe 1 page of numbered points outlining what they support and believe and what they don't support and believe. They need a brief and universal statement so people, including feminists, understand what feminism is. 2) State that they do not support the use of the word "slut" and that calling their march "Slutwalk" and wearing skimpy clothes during the march was a mistake. 3) State that they support women's choice to be traditional women who do not want to act like men and state this is not anti-feminist. You must fight for these women too. 4) State that they will not endorse or support women engaging in harmful behaviours just because men do it. 5) Stop insisting that all women are feminists instead of letting women choose whether or not they believe in your fact sheet. Women deserve the right to say whether or not they agree with you and you have no right to label them. 6) Admit that most feminists are privileged White women and that your work focuses on them. Then start helping underprivileged and minority women much more and stop ignoring them (e.g.,  fighting the misogyny in rap music and the ignoring of missing women of colour in the media). If feminists do these things then I will support them, until then I can't call myself a feminist. In the meantime I will just not use the label to describe my self and will just concisely state what I believe to avoid being misunderstood and judged for things I don't even believe. The onus is on feminists to define and inform themselves of who they are not on women to read numerous books and articles and come up with a vague idea.

Related Videos:
Video trying to figure out Lady Gaga is a feminist (good grief now in this video she says she is a feminist!)
Video trying to figure out if if Nikki Minaj is a feminist (OMG Nikki Minaj does not support promiscuity and thinks it lessens a woman's value!? She denies ever being loose or easy. The language is so foul I can't believe those little girls on Ellen are allowed to listen to her music)
Katy Perry and feminism
Katy Perry's aversion to feminism shows that feminism is still radical (EXCELLENT)
Are Taylor Swift and Katy Perry killing feminism? I guess slamming other women is okay as long as you identify as a feminist and they don't (sarcasm).
Don't go calling Taylor Swift a feminist (also mean and insulting. Actually I can think of a lot of really mean things written by feminists...maybe they should try to be nice like Taylor and then people wouldn't dislike them as much. Being mean to sweet girls really isn't endearing, you come off like bullies and snobs)
Taylor Swift is a feminist's nightmare (wow disagree 100% and I don't even know her music. Lol calls Beyonce evolved and Lady Gaga revolutionary (hmmm, been there done that with Janet Jackson and Madonna)
Why Taylor Swift offends little monsters, feminists, and weirdos (I think this person is insane)

Wow the video below is actually viewed by some as a bad influence and Lady Gaga videos are a much better influence???? Compare to Lady Gaga's Love Game video. These feminists would rather have young girls watching this instead of Taylor Swift??? Yes singing about playing the love game and riding someone's disco stick is revolutionary...maybe when Madonna and Janet Jackson did it decades ago...Another video is Paparrazi...yes so original singing about being famous and how great you are for being famous...killing your boyfriend is much cooler than just daydreaming about him right? I guess there is some message in Gaga's art that is getting lost in translation for me. I can relate to Tayor's video way more than Gaga's.

The Irresponsibility of Women Who Support Promiscuity

Long Post lol! Well after writing my previous post, My issue with slut shaming, I watched several videos by women who were opposed to Jenna Marbles original video and you can see them below. I agree with a lot of what Jenna said (except for the language of course) and the response videos only add to my opinion that modern feminism is on the wrong path and not for me. You will notice that almost all of the videos are by young White women too who seem very similar in my opinion (educated, privileged looking, healthy looking and basically acceptable to society except maybe for some piercings and coloured hair, but still privileged). I also find it almost comical that these feminists are upset with Jenna for using the word "slut" yet they applauded a worldwide campaign called SlutWalk to embrace the word and the protection of "sluts"! If being a slut is so great why are you upset when she calls a spade a spade? It just supports the idea that taking back highly negative and emotionally/historically charged words is nonsense. I have seen only three videos that also support Jenna. Video 1, Video2, Video3.

In the opposition videos there seemed to be common sentiments. One was that the vloggers were in support of ANY frequency or amount of sex a woman had as long as it was "safe". They gloss over the fact that many STDs can still be transmitted when wearing condoms, condoms break, and birth control can fail. They say things like, "I would hope that if you decide to have many partners that you would use safe sex." Hmmmm...do you think this always happens? There are probably plenty of men and women who prefer sex without condoms and these are the ones spreading the diseases and having unwanted pregnancies. You advocate doing "what feels good" and to some people not wearing condoms feels good. When you sleep with your partner you are also sleeping with all of their previous partners and it just takes one condom break for a disease to be transmitted.

Also, many of these casual sex enthusiasts like to have sex at the spur of the moment and one night stands are not prepared with condoms. Women who like to get drunk/high and have sex are probably not sober enough to even think about safe sex. There are also women who are on birth control and decide to have sex, maybe even with a monogamous partner, without condoms and this is when STDs are transferred. These vloggers are ignoring these men and women who haven't been tested and don't know they are spreading STDs. Unless you get tested before having unprotected sex with your partner then you are at risk. Also, given that two people embrace the "do it if it feels good mentality", it takes just one of them to cheat without a condom to catch a disease and bring it home to their partner. Furthermore, men and women who are promiscuous may be more likely to seek out like minded partners and are therefore choosing to sleep with people who have also had many sexual partners (i.e., they seek out high risk partners) exposing them to even more danger.

Many even said they supported women who were promiscuous even though they did not chose that lifestyle for themselves! It's like, "Sure go ahead and put yourself at risk my sisters, but I'll just sit back here all safe and cheer you on while you ruin your life." Seriously, if what sluts do is so acceptable to you then why aren't you doing the same? Maybe it's not as great as you say it is since you have absolutely no experience with being promiscuous yet you are acting like there are no negative consequences as long as it is "safe" and consentual. Be wary of people who do this! What they are saying is based on philosophy, theorizing, and ideals not on actually experiencing what they are endorsing or the unforseen consequences. In my opinion what they say has much less weight than someone who is actually promiscuous and reports having no negative consequences. Its interesting that you never see women who actually look like prostitutes, 50 and never married, with 10 illegitimate children, claiming they have AIDS, multiple abortions etc. doing these pro promiscuity videos. I'm guessing that the women who actually lead these lifestyles are not proud of it and don't think it's great for some feminist reasons. These vloggers talk about this and that being okay yet they don't put themselves out there saying how many partners they have, if they have or ever had STDs, any abortions or unwanted pregnancies etc. They are supporting a lifestyle they have no experience with! Let me hear from the woman with 200 sex partners that having so many partners was great, she's proud of herself, and she doesn't regret a thing.

I really don't understand this whole "I respect whatever choices other people make as long as they don't affect me" crap. So you're a better and more moral person because you accept anything? In my opinion other people's sex lives do affect me because they spread STDs I could catch, they influence men who I want to date, they produce unwanted babies that some say are more prone to beahaviour problems and crime, or the kids end up in foster care and in need of adoption, and they influence what is expected of women like me. I readily admit that I do not respect many choices other people make even though they don't affect me because I think their actions are stupid, disgusting, or dangerous to other people in society. Yeah I care if someone watches/makes child pornography even if it's not me or my child, I care if someone rapes other women, if someone kills other people, if someone steals, if kids are dying from drugs, if 14 year olds are getting pregnant, if there are wars in other countries etc. and I will have opinions about those things because I care when other people are getting hurt or in danger! These "respect everything" people come off as being accepting but they are actually callous and uncaring as long as it doesn't affect them. You support others being promiscuous but it is them, NOT YOU who have to deal with the consequences! I don't want to deal with the consequences of promiscuous people so I don't support their actions. If you support their actions then maybe you need to help them with the consequences and take responsibility for what you endorsed. The vloggers watched Jenna's video and only cared about the promiscuous women who could feel insulted instead of recognizing that Jenna was trying to PROTECT young girls and women from getting hurt by being promiscuous. See the pattern? These women care more about not blaming women for what they do and not making them feel bad after the fact instead of persuading them to avoid doing things that could get them seriously hurt with long term repercussions! (It's women like this who protest against women trying to protect themselves from rape and only focus on not blaming them for anything after it happens, all that caring is useless if the woman is dead.)

What I also noticed was that the vloggers seemed to be living in a fairytale land where they state their idealistic desires as though they are reality and the thoughts of most people. They say things like, "it doesn't matter how many partners a woman has", well it doesn't matter to you but it matters to most people even if it's not fair. They state, "a woman should be respected no matter how many casual sex partners she has" while ignoring the FACT that most people today do not respect such women! Maybe 50 years in the future such statements will be facts, but right now they are not. The responsible thing to say is that at the present, women who are promiscuous are rarely respected and they may suffer negative social consequences for their behaviour. They are being incredibly irresponsible by ignoring the current reality. I understand that they are trying to change reality but until this reality is changed it is their responsibility to inform people of the potential consequences of their actions in this day of age.

These vloggers ignore many potential negative consequences of having sex with whoever you want whenever you want. These are things that the casual sex advocates conveniently fail to mention but they are things that many women know and warn their friends and daughters about. I feel that some of these casual sex advocates are like permissive parents who are okay with anything their kids do while not protecting them by setting limits and warning them about potential dangers. Everyone already knows the dangers of STDs and unwanted pregnancies so I'll skip over those. Your can probably think of women in your life or the news/entertainment media who have experienced these consequences. Of course there may be positive consequences to each situation too. These are some examples just off the top of my head:

1. If you sleep with your boss it may make things uncomfortable at work if things don't work out. Some people actually consider this to be rape or sexual harassment so your desire to feel good could blow up into a court case and everyone you know could find out about it. You may feel obligated to continue having sex in order to keep your job. You may also be fired and have to file a wrongful termination suit that you may not win. Your coworkers may lose respect for you, dislike you, and you could gain a reputation for sleeping your way to the top. It could hurt your career. Of course some women marry their bosses.
2. Related to #1, if you have sex with a coworker and things don't work out then you may be uncomfortable when you continue working with them. Sometimes working with the person becomes impossible and you may need to quit. Other coworkers may find out, gossip about you, and lose respect for you. You may develop a bad reputation at your work or even in your field. If your job has a policy of no dating between coworkers you could be fired. It may interfere with your work productivity. If things don't work out with your partner they may make your life miserable at work especially if they have more power. Of course some women marry their coworkers.
3. Many vloggers said sleeping with married/coupled people is wrong but this may happen intentionally or unintentionally. Men often have affairs or one night stands with promiscuous women who have sex before getting to know them and realizing that they are not single. You may end up breaking up a relationship without even knowing it because you had sex too fast. If a woman thinks sex is no big deal then she may not have a problem sleeping with married/coupled men. The availability of promiscuous women makes it more easy for men to cheat and that will end up hurting their partners. If you are in a couple then promiscuous women are a threat to you. They can ruin your marriage or relationship, transmit disease, and cause unwanted pregnancies. 
4. If you are a young person then being promiscuous could get you in big trouble with your parents. No parent will be proud if they find out their 17 year old daughter has had 30 sex partners aged 14-50. They will be disappointed and possibly disgusted with you. They may choose to punish you or do something to restrict your freedom. 
5. If you are attending school and being promiscuous with other students then you could gain a bad reputation and be labeled a "slut". Few boys at school will see you as girlfriend material and they will just try to get sex with you. Most girls at school will have little respect for you and may not want to associate with you out of fear that they will also be labeled. You may become a victim of bullying and social isolation, or you may be end up hanging out with the wrong crowd. This bad reputation may follow you to other schools and throughout your community. There have been cases of girls with bad reputations actually committing suicide due to bullying. Calling yourself a "slut" or getting yourself a bad reputation by being promiscuous is a very bad idea!
6. If you are promiscuous with many men in your neighborhood you could gain a bad reputation and be labeled a "slut". This may make it difficult for you to find a relationship in your community because most men don't want relationships with women their friends and family members have slept with or with women who have bad reputations. You may be harassed more by men who feel entitled to have sex with you. Other women may harass you and not want you around out of fear you will sleep with their men. 
7. There may be negative psychological consequences for being promiscuous. They may not be experienced by everyone. You may enjoy the sex at the moment but after you may feel guilty or bad about what you did. You may feel bad and used when you sleep with someone you like and they never contact you again. Or if you sleep with someone and they kick you out of their place, laugh at you, insult you, or tell all of their friends and laugh at you then you will feel horrible. It doesn't matter if all your feminist girlfriends respect you because it still hurts when the men you sleep with do not. Many men who would sleep with you without a relationship or when you are a stranger HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOU and they see you as no more than a pleasure object to throw away after. Are you okay with someone thinking of and treating you that way? Some people reason that only a woman who doesn't respect herself would tolerate being with men who don't respect her so that's why they say promiscuous women don't respect themselves. You are risking all of this when you sleep with someone who has not shown they care about you. You may feel unworthy when other women have relationships but you only get one night stands. Or you may feel bad when other women get commitment before sex and you only get sex without commitment. You may question your self-worth. If you develop a reputation then the gossip and negative comments may make you feel bad. You may be socially excluded and feel bad about that. 
8. You may be harassed by men who know your reputation. Your family, friends, and kids may find out and they could also be harassed. In fact in one video a woman said she supported other women being porn stars...imagine the effect that would have on your dating life, reputation, and your kids. I know for a fact that some women who engaged in porn have lost opportunities as soon as their history was discovered. If you have a reputation for being promiscuous that could follow you for many, many years. You may meet men who you really like who will reject you once they learn of your reputation and how many partners you have had. Their friends and family members may also try to convince the men that you are not good enough for them. If you sleep around too much it may become difficult to find a man in your social circles so it may be harder for you to find a partner. If it is hard for you to find a partner you may end up alone or settling for someone you don't want. 

As you can see from this post, there are many reasons why I think encouraging promiscuity for women is a bad idea. In fact I think promoting promiscuity for men is also a bad idea. Many of the vloggers complained that men suffer no consequences for being promiscuous but I disagree. Often women warn their friends to stay away from "players" (aka "man sluts") because these men have reputations for using women for sex. Many women avoid men who look like players because players have a certain look (e.g., greased back hair, open shirts, chains, walk with a limp, always flirting with women even when in a relationship, cheesy pick up lines, ogling women's bodies, cat calling, proposing sex too quickly etc.). The only women who go for such men are the ones who want something from them (e.g., money or fame), don't care about cheating, or think they will change the men. These men are not desirable. Many women will not date or sleep with men who their friends/family have also been with so promiscuous men can not get these women. These men may end up single for long periods of time and lose relationships because they cheat. Women don't want cheaters so this will also make them more undesirable. Personally, I have refused to date men who seemed like players, have admitted they cheated in the past, and who had reported having too many sex partners. So no, these men may be admired by other men but it makes them less desirable to many women. 

As for the whole "why don't you focus more on telling men not to rape" argument. Well, other than telling men "no means no" and don't sleep with drunk girls I think pretty much, MEN KNOW RAPE IS WRONG. I believe men plan to rape (i.e., get sex no matter what) and it doesn't just happen by accident. That is why they plan to do it, they seek out vulnerable victims, do it in private places, and do things to not get caught. That is why they threaten victims to not tell, choose someone less likely to tell and even kill their victims. They know it is wrong! Murderers know what they are doing is wrong too unless they are mentally ill or incapacitated in some way. That is why we don't need public service announcements about not murdering because everyone knows it is wrong! But just like murder, rapists do it because THEY DON'T CARE THAT IT IS WRONG, they think the benefits outweigh the risks, and they think they won't get caught. I believe some men will rape when they get the opportunity but many will not because they think it's wrong and care that it's wrong. The rapists just need to be locked up. But you know what, go ahead start and anti-rape campaign and see it it reduces crime rates, maybe you are right.

Videos

Video 1: This woman is a sex educator and seems to have an anything goes attitude based on her other videos. So this is who is teaching your kids about sex folks. She's telling your teenagers have as much sex with whoever they want as long as they use protection. Teenaged orgies at your house are ok in her book I'm guessing. She says that there were three main points from Jenna's video: 1) Sluts don't respect themselves, 2) Respecting yourself means not having a lot of sex with different men, and 3) Sluts are really stupid women who don't deserve our respect. Those were not the messages I took from the video. The main messages for me were: 1) Sex with many partners, especially those you don't know is dangerous, 3) Sex with many partners you don't know isn't worth it because it isn't fulfilling, and you will feel bad after if your partners don't care about or respect you, 3) All forms of sex count so you are still being promiscuous even if not having vaginal sex, 4) Comparisons to the promiscuity of animals is unrealistic because people have higher cognitive function and morals and emotions related to sex and animals don't, so don't look to animals for examples of healthy sex. Lol she has no problem saying all people are stupid...

Video2: According to this woman having sex with a long-term monogamous partner is just as risky as one night stands while ignoring all the benefits of monogamous relationships. Also, she says its good for OTHER PEOPLE to look out for drunk girls with no mention of the personal responsibility of these girls to not get blackout drunk in the first place. Yes, like many feminists this vlogger places the onus on rapists to not rape and for other people to prevent the rape of women who CHOOSE to get blackout drunk.  Hmm, but didn't you say people shouldn't be concerned when other people's behaviour doesn't affect them? If other women getting blackout drunk and raped doesn't affect me then it's none of my business right? (sarcasm) The thing is, many women and men think promiscuous women are actually being harmed even if they don't realize it at the time. So telling them to "not be sluts" is an attempt to protect them and this was the overwhelming message in Jenna Marbles video! It's always interesting to see people say over and over that they don't care what others do yet get furious when someone merely says they don't like what other people do...I guess what other people do doesn't bother them, only what other people say? Basically women like this are more focused on not hurting someone's feelings after they do something/something bad happens rather then telling women not to do something risky and how to avoid bad things.

Video3, Video4,
Video5: Interesting how she blames women like Jenna for men mistreating sluts and raping women...what happened to that whole blaming men for mistreating women and for rape thing? Sure, if all women stopped looking down on the promiscuous ones then men will stop preferring virgins, be cool with women having 100+ partners, and have won't think twice about marrying the girl who slept with his entire football team...sarcasm. If I grew up hanging with women like this I would have over 100 partners by now because they would never discourage me from having sex with anyone and would tell me it's okay. I mean do these women ever look out for their friends? "A duh sure Elegance, I support your choice to take heroin, have a gangbang with a bunch of strange men in an alley, and oh I support your choice to film it too because I respect you", I don't need friends like that.

Ask Men article: A MUST READ! "An object that has value is worshipped, respected, cherished, and shared with very few deserving people. As soon as you start sharing that object with anyone and without care, the object starts to lose value. The more people use the object, the more it depreciates and the less bargaining power it has: this is a plain psychological fact of life...Most women don't realize the importance men place on a woman's promiscuity. Women think that because men don't care about how many women they've slept with, they won't care about how many men their woman has slept with. But the reality is that most men (those looking for a serious relationship and not a one-night stand) do place great value on a woman's sexual restraint."

Has the price of sex bottomed out? EXCELLENT MUST READ!
Feminism produced price drop for sex, price hike for commitment EXCELLENT MUST READ!

Volume Dating Versus Serial Dating

You have to read this article, Every Woman Needs a Gaggle of Men. I know it's just one article (I am reading a bunch right now and will post below), but it highlights something I have been feeling about this whole 'volume dating/date multiple men' thing. I had a suspicion that these multiple dating advocates tend to be okay with casual sex without monogamy and sex with more than one person at a time. This supposed 'sex counselor' (who knows what his training is) is okay with sex without monogamy, sex with multiple partners, and even says marriage is not for everyone! He's one of those who has thrown traditional dating, marriage, and life goals to the wind because he knows times have changed for everyone so we just have to accept the decline (i.e., everyone is doing it so you should too). He is advocating hook-up culture when many women (and men) say they don't actually like the culture but they conform because everyone else seems to be doing it. UPDATE: I just read the comments from the article and the majority of people reacted just as negatively as I did.

So how can someone like me, who only believes in sex with one person and wants marriage, listen to someone like that? This is one of those 'anything goes' radical liberal types that I am not. He says that it's a post-dating world but I beg to differ because this seems to be a Western, feminist, male fantasy sort of thing while traditional people (including many non-White people) don't believe in that. He makes it seem like what he advocates is the norm but it isn't. For many guys, if you told them you were sleeping with someone else they would no longer see you as girlfriend material. Others, as you know, get weird when they know you are dating someone else so it could actually ruin your chances with someone by dating other people. This expert is telling women to date and sleep around believing that eventually these women will date and sleep with enough guys and find their match. That assumes that the women don't get sick of it and end up settling just like women who dated and slept around less. It also assumes that one of these guys will actually want to settle down with a volume dater who has been around the block. It assumes that these women only stop this because they find their best match and that match also chooses them but I haven't read scientific proof this is the case. 

One problem I have with this multiple dating thing is what proof do they have that it actually works? I've read a few anecdotes where a woman says she dated multiple men, it helped her figure out what she wanted, then she was able to find her best match. But aren't there women who already know what they want based on long-term relationships or dating a few men? Also, how does the anecdotal person know that things would not have gone the same way if she was totally single when she met Mr. Right? Maybe, if she was more selective in her dates then every date would be with a potential Mr. Right instead of guys who obviously were not good matches from the beginning. The point is that there are no scientific studies proving this is a better method and their ideas are no more valid than those who advocate sex only with monogamy. Patti Stranger from Millionaire Matchmaker advocates dating 3 guys but no sex (at all) without monogamy. She knows that many women feel bad if they give up sex without monogamy so she advocates against it. Sex makes the relationship deeper so it's hard for the woman to date other guys. Only a study can determine if more women are happier after serial/traditional dating versus multiple dating and who feels they found their best match. 

I think that things can be looked at in different ways, maybe depending on if you are a positive or negative person. I tend to see the negatives so if I were to date 20 guys, three dates each, if none of them wanted me to be their girlfriend, and if none of them fell in love with me then my self-esteem would be way worse than if I was just rejected by 3 men! If I was at my best and most charming with 20 guys I would expect one of them to choose me! I don't want more chances to be rejected. I read another article about how women can just enjoy the experience of connecting with these people. I'm just not like that, I would rather have a conversation with someone I like rather than someone who I don't (I'd rather watch TV or blog instead). So when I'm on a date with a guy I'm not attracted (and there isn't enough chemistry to be friends) I feel like I would rather be doing something else. I just don't enjoy talking with people I don't want a relationship or friendship with. I consider these conversations to be investments and I'd rather not spend my best jokes, insights, and stories on someone I don't plan on seeing again. I'm just not that person who enjoys talking for the sake of it. I prefer having deep relationships rather than many superficial ones so I'd rather have a handful of close friends than 20 not so close ones. Dates with Mr. Wrongs is tedious but dating Mr. Right is not.

Also, how do these multiple daters know that the man they married was their "best match"? It could be that compared to the other 20 men the anecdotal woman dated, Mr. Right was just the best of the bunch and got along with her the best. How is that any different from a woman dating 3 guys serially and then picking #4 because he was the best one? You don't have to actually date every type of guy to figure out what you want. You can learn from other women's stories, friendships and working relationships, family members, films, books, etc. I'm sure that women with few dating experiences still have an idea of what they want. Furthermore, there is so much advice about how to feel happy and satisfied with what you have instead of thinking that what you have isn't good enough. Maybe women who serial date are able to do this with their Mr. Right but it is very difficult to do this when you are dating multiple, different men over a long period of time. The multiple dater is always expecting that they can find someone better but what is the guarantee that there is someone better? I'm not talking about someone who dates jerks, I mean someone who has dated maybe 10 employed, nice, attractive, and great guys who any woman would want.

Here's a quote, ""When you date just one guy, you might feel pressured to commit, even if you’re not ready,” she says. “If you see two men, there’s often this unspoken need to choose between them. But three guys tend to balance each other out, like a tripod.” I think the most important thing is that it's THE MAN who decides whether to commit or not! I have not read anywhere that these anecdotal women were asked for commitment from more than one man and they chose to say yes to the best one. For all we know these women dated 20 men, they didn't want 10 of them and 9 did not want to commit, so they said yes to the 20th one, the only one who actually wanted them! Since this is a new phenomenon there are no long-term studies showing that these volume daters have better or longer marriages either. This is really another example of people advocating for something that theoretically seems better but there is no real proof that it is! No I am not saying that it is good for women to settle for the first man they date or for whoever chooses them. I think that nowadays it is fine to date more than one man before you get married. But I will not believe that women who date more before marriage end up with better matches than those who don't without proof of this. Also, I won't believe that women with many sexual partners don't suffer negative consequences because of it, or that it doesn't interfere with their relationship and marriage prospects. 

So in terms of volume dating my stance is that I will only continue to see men who I like because I won't go through the motions of more than one date with men I am not attracted to just for the sake of having dates (why continue unsatisfying relationships?). I will not pursue men and when I find one I like I will make myself less available (e.g., won't go on dating sites as much) but I won't cut the other men off until I discuss that with the potential Mr. Right.  If he has a problem with it he will have to put up with it, commit to me, or move on. If he is worth it I won't have a problem giving up the other guys but a discussion must be had. I will also follow Patti Stranger's advice of no sex without monogamy because that is more consistent with my values. 

It's hard to get more than one man interested in you that you actually want, and these volume dating articles make it seem like it's easy and we are purposefully avoiding it! Like the article above said, these women are dating men who don't have what they want but they are keeping them around to fulfill specific needs...they are dating men they know are not good enough! I ONLY go on second dates with men who I would actually want to have a relationship with who have everything I want. Furthermore, these men have feelings too and they can tell if you aren't into them and it makes me wonder why they stick around. Some may just want to be friends, especially friends with benefits and this article encourages that! I mean these articles act like the men don't have feelings! Are these men paying for dates and spending time with women who KNOW they don't want them? I think that is just as unethical as men saying they love and will commit to women in order to sleep with them. Unless these women let the men know that they don't think a relationship will happen then they are using these men. This is why some guys are mad a women for leading them on. I have no problem with being friends and seeing what happens (with nothing physical) but both parties should know what's going on. Just imagine your're a guy, going on dates for 2 months (him paying) and when you ask for commitment the woman says no...why in the world was she dating you if she didn't want you??? If you are sure you don't want someone you should let them go instead of leading them on. 

For me I have NEVER been able to date two or more quality men, who I have chemistry with, at the same time. I find most of my dates on online dating sites and recently in a networking group. I ONLY go on dates with men who I am attracted to physically, have a degree, live nearby and plan to stay here, are looking for a relationship, not too young or old, and seem nice. I don't get approached by tons of men who meet this criteria. Out of the last 6 dates I've gone on recently I was only physically attracted to 1 (four did not look as good as they did in photos). There was no chemistry with 4 because I was not attracted to them and there wasn't enough friendship chemistry for me to want to stay in touch with them (they were a bit awkward or dull in my opinion. I have met 2 men recently who aren't even straight, or close to my age, but they were so fun and we got on so well I want to keep them as friends. So it's not that I wasn't friendly). I was not attracted to 1/6 but I would like to be his friend. I have gone on multiple dates with another 1/6 but he takes things slow and does not want to commit. I have an upcoming date with a guy I had amazing chemistry with but who went away and has now returned. I have never had so much chemistry with a man and he says and does exactly what I need. There are also two very attractive men who have my number but I don't know if they want dates, to be friends, or if they are even single so I can't even count them yet. So that leaves me with 2 potentials, 1 who hasn't chosen me and 1 just starting up again out of 11 men I have recently met (including the two friends) and that was a lot of time spent! I only met these men online or networking and not at work, school, clubs, bars, or just randomly on the street. If I end up dating 3 men I actually like at the same time I will be very surprised!

Related Articles:

*The biggest mistake women make when dating (this is way less objectionable than the one posted above)
*Volume dating (pretty good and has responses to some of my doubts)
*Volume dating?
*How to date multiple guys without being shady

*Is it okay to date more than one man at once? (lol she uses the marketing metaphor that I have used in previous posts). This advice also disagrees with the first article and says don't have sex too easily. Here's a quote:

The principles of the game:

1. You are a company.

2. You are the company’s only salesman, marketer and advertiser.

3. Men are your company’s customers and they make their buying decisions based upon the goods you produce (i.e. yourself); in other words, you have to present the best product with not only the best structural quality, but also the best packaging, and advertising possible. (You must have the best possible inner and outer selves.)

4. Your personal style differentiates your company from all the others. If you’re going to compete in the Fortune 500, you’d better know how to generate the best revenue.

5. The world’s best salesmen don’t have a 100% sales rate, or a 75% sales rate; nor do they have a 50% sales rate, or even a 25% sales rate. The world’s best salesmen are lucky to maintain a 10% sales rate. A 10% sales rate = one in every 10.

 If you’re not catching my drift yet, think of it this way: To win this game, you have to be the best company you can be, making the best product and selling the best services. Moreover, you have to keep trying to improve every aspect of your corporation, no matter what hurdles you face. (For example, the GAP went through a slow sales period for some years, but the company has started posting increases in their quarterly sales.)

*It's not just sex (EXCELLENT!!!) "By participating in the hook-up culture, we reinforce the idea that the emotional energy required for sex is no different from that required for self-pleasure or pornography, we reinforce the belief that genuine relationships come second to an orgasm, we reinforce the notion that sex is just an emotionless, mindless, physical act. But sex is so much more than that. Sex becomes a deep, romantic, beautiful thing when combined with love and trust."
*Finally someone says it: Hook up culture is good for women (feminist barf). Here's a quote that the author disagrees with but I agree with, "The central argument holds that women have effectively been duped by a sexual revolution that persuaded them to trade away the protections of (and from) young men. In return, they were left even more vulnerable and exploited than before. Sexual liberation, goes the argument, primarily liberated men-to act as cads, using women for their own pleasures and taking no responsibility for the emotional wreckage that their behavior created. The men hold all the cards, and the women put up with it because now it's too late to zip it back up, so they don't have a choice."
*The effect of hook up culture on men (basically saying that since men can get women so easily they don't feel the need to be successful or put in much effort to get women, including committing to them)
*Is hook up culture empowering? (VERY GOOD!!!)