Tuesday, December 18, 2012

The Irresponsibility of Women Who Support Promiscuity

Long Post lol! Well after writing my previous post, My issue with slut shaming, I watched several videos by women who were opposed to Jenna Marbles original video and you can see them below. I agree with a lot of what Jenna said (except for the language of course) and the response videos only add to my opinion that modern feminism is on the wrong path and not for me. You will notice that almost all of the videos are by young White women too who seem very similar in my opinion (educated, privileged looking, healthy looking and basically acceptable to society except maybe for some piercings and coloured hair, but still privileged). I also find it almost comical that these feminists are upset with Jenna for using the word "slut" yet they applauded a worldwide campaign called SlutWalk to embrace the word and the protection of "sluts"! If being a slut is so great why are you upset when she calls a spade a spade? It just supports the idea that taking back highly negative and emotionally/historically charged words is nonsense. I have seen only three videos that also support Jenna. Video 1, Video2, Video3.

In the opposition videos there seemed to be common sentiments. One was that the vloggers were in support of ANY frequency or amount of sex a woman had as long as it was "safe". They gloss over the fact that many STDs can still be transmitted when wearing condoms, condoms break, and birth control can fail. They say things like, "I would hope that if you decide to have many partners that you would use safe sex." Hmmmm...do you think this always happens? There are probably plenty of men and women who prefer sex without condoms and these are the ones spreading the diseases and having unwanted pregnancies. You advocate doing "what feels good" and to some people not wearing condoms feels good. When you sleep with your partner you are also sleeping with all of their previous partners and it just takes one condom break for a disease to be transmitted.

Also, many of these casual sex enthusiasts like to have sex at the spur of the moment and one night stands are not prepared with condoms. Women who like to get drunk/high and have sex are probably not sober enough to even think about safe sex. There are also women who are on birth control and decide to have sex, maybe even with a monogamous partner, without condoms and this is when STDs are transferred. These vloggers are ignoring these men and women who haven't been tested and don't know they are spreading STDs. Unless you get tested before having unprotected sex with your partner then you are at risk. Also, given that two people embrace the "do it if it feels good mentality", it takes just one of them to cheat without a condom to catch a disease and bring it home to their partner. Furthermore, men and women who are promiscuous may be more likely to seek out like minded partners and are therefore choosing to sleep with people who have also had many sexual partners (i.e., they seek out high risk partners) exposing them to even more danger.

Many even said they supported women who were promiscuous even though they did not chose that lifestyle for themselves! It's like, "Sure go ahead and put yourself at risk my sisters, but I'll just sit back here all safe and cheer you on while you ruin your life." Seriously, if what sluts do is so acceptable to you then why aren't you doing the same? Maybe it's not as great as you say it is since you have absolutely no experience with being promiscuous yet you are acting like there are no negative consequences as long as it is "safe" and consentual. Be wary of people who do this! What they are saying is based on philosophy, theorizing, and ideals not on actually experiencing what they are endorsing or the unforseen consequences. In my opinion what they say has much less weight than someone who is actually promiscuous and reports having no negative consequences. Its interesting that you never see women who actually look like prostitutes, 50 and never married, with 10 illegitimate children, claiming they have AIDS, multiple abortions etc. doing these pro promiscuity videos. I'm guessing that the women who actually lead these lifestyles are not proud of it and don't think it's great for some feminist reasons. These vloggers talk about this and that being okay yet they don't put themselves out there saying how many partners they have, if they have or ever had STDs, any abortions or unwanted pregnancies etc. They are supporting a lifestyle they have no experience with! Let me hear from the woman with 200 sex partners that having so many partners was great, she's proud of herself, and she doesn't regret a thing.

I really don't understand this whole "I respect whatever choices other people make as long as they don't affect me" crap. So you're a better and more moral person because you accept anything? In my opinion other people's sex lives do affect me because they spread STDs I could catch, they influence men who I want to date, they produce unwanted babies that some say are more prone to beahaviour problems and crime, or the kids end up in foster care and in need of adoption, and they influence what is expected of women like me. I readily admit that I do not respect many choices other people make even though they don't affect me because I think their actions are stupid, disgusting, or dangerous to other people in society. Yeah I care if someone watches/makes child pornography even if it's not me or my child, I care if someone rapes other women, if someone kills other people, if someone steals, if kids are dying from drugs, if 14 year olds are getting pregnant, if there are wars in other countries etc. and I will have opinions about those things because I care when other people are getting hurt or in danger! These "respect everything" people come off as being accepting but they are actually callous and uncaring as long as it doesn't affect them. You support others being promiscuous but it is them, NOT YOU who have to deal with the consequences! I don't want to deal with the consequences of promiscuous people so I don't support their actions. If you support their actions then maybe you need to help them with the consequences and take responsibility for what you endorsed. The vloggers watched Jenna's video and only cared about the promiscuous women who could feel insulted instead of recognizing that Jenna was trying to PROTECT young girls and women from getting hurt by being promiscuous. See the pattern? These women care more about not blaming women for what they do and not making them feel bad after the fact instead of persuading them to avoid doing things that could get them seriously hurt with long term repercussions! (It's women like this who protest against women trying to protect themselves from rape and only focus on not blaming them for anything after it happens, all that caring is useless if the woman is dead.)

What I also noticed was that the vloggers seemed to be living in a fairytale land where they state their idealistic desires as though they are reality and the thoughts of most people. They say things like, "it doesn't matter how many partners a woman has", well it doesn't matter to you but it matters to most people even if it's not fair. They state, "a woman should be respected no matter how many casual sex partners she has" while ignoring the FACT that most people today do not respect such women! Maybe 50 years in the future such statements will be facts, but right now they are not. The responsible thing to say is that at the present, women who are promiscuous are rarely respected and they may suffer negative social consequences for their behaviour. They are being incredibly irresponsible by ignoring the current reality. I understand that they are trying to change reality but until this reality is changed it is their responsibility to inform people of the potential consequences of their actions in this day of age.

These vloggers ignore many potential negative consequences of having sex with whoever you want whenever you want. These are things that the casual sex advocates conveniently fail to mention but they are things that many women know and warn their friends and daughters about. I feel that some of these casual sex advocates are like permissive parents who are okay with anything their kids do while not protecting them by setting limits and warning them about potential dangers. Everyone already knows the dangers of STDs and unwanted pregnancies so I'll skip over those. Your can probably think of women in your life or the news/entertainment media who have experienced these consequences. Of course there may be positive consequences to each situation too. These are some examples just off the top of my head:

  1. If you sleep with your boss it may make things uncomfortable at work if things don't work out. Some people actually consider this to be rape or sexual harassment so your desire to feel good could blow up into a court case and everyone you know could find out about it. You may feel obligated to continue having sex in order to keep your job. You may also be fired and have to file a wrongful termination suit that you may not win. Your coworkers may lose respect for you, dislike you, and you could gain a reputation for sleeping your way to the top. It could hurt your career. Of course some women marry their bosses.
  2. Related to #1, if you have sex with a coworker and things don't work out then you may be uncomfortable when you continue working with them. Sometimes working with the person becomes impossible and you may need to quit. Other coworkers may find out, gossip about you, and lose respect for you. You may develop a bad reputation at your work or even in your field. If your job has a policy of no dating between coworkers you could be fired. It may interfere with your work productivity. If things don't work out with your partner they may make your life miserable at work especially if they have more power. Of course some women marry their coworkers.
  3. Many vloggers said sleeping with married/coupled people is wrong but this may happen intentionally or unintentionally. Men often have affairs or one night stands with promiscuous women who have sex before getting to know them and realizing that they are not single. You may end up breaking up a relationship without even knowing it because you had sex too fast. If a woman thinks sex is no big deal then she may not have a problem sleeping with married/coupled men. The availability of promiscuous women makes it more easy for men to cheat and that will end up hurting their partners. If you are in a couple then promiscuous women are a threat to you. They can ruin your marriage or relationship, transmit disease, and cause unwanted pregnancies. 
  4. If you are a young person then being promiscuous could get you in big trouble with your parents. No parent will be proud if they find out their 17 year old daughter has had 30 sex partners aged 14-50. They will be disappointed and possibly disgusted with you. They may choose to punish you or do something to restrict your freedom. 
  5. If you are attending school and being promiscuous with other students then you could gain a bad reputation and be labeled a "slut". Few boys at school will see you as girlfriend material and they will just try to get sex with you. Most girls at school will have little respect for you and may not want to associate with you out of fear that they will also be labeled. You may become a victim of bullying and social isolation, or you may be end up hanging out with the wrong crowd. This bad reputation may follow you to other schools and throughout your community. There have been cases of girls with bad reputations actually committing suicide due to bullying. Calling yourself a "slut" or getting yourself a bad reputation by being promiscuous is a very bad idea!
  6. If you are promiscuous with many men in your neighborhood you could gain a bad reputation and be labeled a "slut". This may make it difficult for you to find a relationship in your community because most men don't want relationships with women their friends and family members have slept with or with women who have bad reputations. You may be harassed more by men who feel entitled to have sex with you. Other women may harass you and not want you around out of fear you will sleep with their men. 
  7. There may be negative psychological consequences for being promiscuous. They may not be experienced by everyone. You may enjoy the sex at the moment but after you may feel guilty or bad about what you did. You may feel bad and used when you sleep with someone you like and they never contact you again. Or if you sleep with someone and they kick you out of their place, laugh at you, insult you, or tell all of their friends and laugh at you then you will feel horrible. It doesn't matter if all your feminist girlfriends respect you because it still hurts when the men you sleep with do not. Many men who would sleep with you without a relationship or when you are a stranger HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOU and they see you as no more than a pleasure object to throw away after. Are you okay with someone thinking of and treating you that way? Some people reason that only a woman who doesn't respect herself would tolerate being with men who don't respect her so that's why they say promiscuous women don't respect themselves. You are risking all of this when you sleep with someone who has not shown they care about you. You may feel unworthy when other women have relationships but you only get one night stands. Or you may feel bad when other women get commitment before sex and you only get sex without commitment. You may question your self-worth. If you develop a reputation then the gossip and negative comments may make you feel bad. You may be socially excluded and feel bad about that. 
  8. You may be harassed by men who know your reputation. Your family, friends, and kids may find out and they could also be harassed. In fact in one video a woman said she supported other women being porn stars...imagine the effect that would have on your dating life, reputation, and your kids. I know for a fact that some women who engaged in porn have lost opportunities as soon as their history was discovered. If you have a reputation for being promiscuous that could follow you for many, many years. You may meet men who you really like who will reject you once they learn of your reputation and how many partners you have had. Their friends and family members may also try to convince the men that you are not good enough for them. If you sleep around too much it may become difficult to find a man in your social circles so it may be harder for you to find a partner. If it is hard for you to find a partner you may end up alone or settling for someone you don't want. 
As you can see from this post, there are many reasons why I think encouraging promiscuity for women is a bad idea. In fact I think promoting promiscuity for men is also a bad idea. Many of the vloggers complained that men suffer no consequences for being promiscuous but I disagree. Often women warn their friends to stay away from "players" (aka "man sluts") because these men have reputations for using women for sex. Many women avoid men who look like players because players have a certain look (e.g., greased back hair, open shirts, chains, walk with a limp, always flirting with women even when in a relationship, cheesy pick up lines, ogling women's bodies, cat calling, proposing sex too quickly etc.). The only women who go for such men are the ones who want something from them (e.g., money or fame), don't care about cheating, or think they will change the men. These men are not desirable. Many women will not date or sleep with men who their friends/family have also been with so promiscuous men can not get these women. These men may end up single for long periods of time and lose relationships because they cheat. Women don't want cheaters so this will also make them more undesirable. Personally, I have refused to date men who seemed like players, have admitted they cheated in the past, and who had reported having too many sex partners. So no, these men may be admired by other men but it makes them less desirable to many women. 

As for the whole "why don't you focus more on telling men not to rape" argument. Well, other than telling men "no means no" and don't sleep with drunk girls I think pretty much, MEN KNOW RAPE IS WRONG. I believe men plan to rape (i.e., get sex no matter what) and it doesn't just happen by accident. That is why they plan to do it, they seek out vulnerable victims, do it in private places, and do things to not get caught. That is why they threaten victims to not tell, choose someone less likely to tell and even kill their victims. They know it is wrong! Murderers know what they are doing is wrong too unless they are mentally ill or incapacitated in some way. That is why we don't need public service announcements about not murdering because everyone knows it is wrong! But just like murder, rapists do it because THEY DON'T CARE THAT IT IS WRONG, they think the benefits outweigh the risks, and they think they won't get caught. I believe some men will rape when they get the opportunity but many will not because they think it's wrong and care that it's wrong. The rapists just need to be locked up. But you know what, go ahead start and anti-rape campaign and see it it reduces crime rates, maybe you are right.

Video 1: This woman is a sex educator and seems to have an anything goes attitude based on her other videos. So this is who is teaching your kids about sex folks. She's telling your teenagers have as much sex with whoever they want as long as they use protection. Teenaged orgies at your house are ok in her book I'm guessing. She says that there were three main points from Jenna's video: 1) Sluts don't respect themselves, 2) Respecting yourself means not having a lot of sex with different men, and 3) Sluts are really stupid women who don't deserve our respect. Those were not the messages I took from the video. The main messages for me were: 1) Sex with many partners, especially those you don't know is dangerous, 3) Sex with many partners you don't know isn't worth it because it isn't fulfilling, and you will feel bad after if your partners don't care about or respect you, 3) All forms of sex count so you are still being promiscuous even if not having vaginal sex, 4) Comparisons to the promiscuity of animals is unrealistic because people have higher cognitive function and morals and emotions related to sex and animals don't, so don't look to animals for examples of healthy sex. Lol she has no problem saying all people are stupid...

Video2: According to this woman having sex with a long-term monogamous partner is just as risky as one night stands while ignoring all the benefits of monogamous relationships. Also, she says its good for OTHER PEOPLE to look out for drunk girls with no mention of the personal responsibility of these girls to not get blackout drunk in the first place. Yes, like many feminists this vlogger places the onus on rapists to not rape and for other people to prevent the rape of women who CHOOSE to get blackout drunk.  Hmm, but didn't you say people shouldn't be concerned when other people's behaviour doesn't affect them? If other women getting blackout drunk and raped doesn't affect me then it's none of my business right? (sarcasm) The thing is, many women and men think promiscuous women are actually being harmed even if they don't realize it at the time. So telling them to "not be sluts" is an attempt to protect them and this was the overwhelming message in Jenna Marbles video! It's always interesting to see people say over and over that they don't care what others do yet get furious when someone merely says they don't like what other people do...I guess what other people do doesn't bother them, only what other people say? Basically women like this are more focused on not hurting someone's feelings after they do something/something bad happens rather then telling women not to do something risky and how to avoid bad things.

Video5: Interesting how she blames women like Jenna for men mistreating sluts and raping women...what happened to that whole blaming men for mistreating women and for rape thing? Sure, if all women stopped looking down on the promiscuous ones then men will stop preferring virgins, be cool with women having 100+ partners, and have won't think twice about marrying the girl who slept with his entire football team...sarcasm. If I grew up hanging with women like this I would have over 100 partners by now because they would never discourage me from having sex with anyone and would tell me it's okay. I mean do these women ever look out for their friends? "A duh sure Elegance, I support your choice to take heroin, have a gangbang with a bunch of strange men in an alley, and oh I support your choice to film it too because I respect you", I don't need friends like that.

Ask Men article: A MUST READ! "An object that has value is worshipped, respected, cherished, and shared with very few deserving people. As soon as you start sharing that object with anyone and without care, the object starts to lose value. The more people use the object, the more it depreciates and the less bargaining power it has: this is a plain psychological fact of life...Most women don't realize the importance men place on a woman's promiscuity. Women think that because men don't care about how many women they've slept with, they won't care about how many men their woman has slept with. But the reality is that most men (those looking for a serious relationship and not a one-night stand) do place great value on a woman's sexual restraint."

Has the price of sex bottomed out? EXCELLENT MUST READ!
Feminism produced price drop for sex, price hike for commitment EXCELLENT MUST READ!


  1. This is a Very Interesting& Thought Provoking post! I never really looked at [some of your points] that way. I enjoy reading anything that questions what i think and why.
    Thank you for this post!
    ( Also i really enjoy your blogs... most blogs that focus on personal development and dating advice never bring up any controversial issues for fear of backlash from the audience and members....... and it doesnt seem like you're one of those blogs )

  2. Thanks Aneesa and welcome to the blog :)

    LOL I can get away with posting stuff like this because I have a pretty small audience so I don't worry too much about backlash. But actually the few times my posts have been shown on other sites I have gotten a lot of backlash and many more comments. It's at times like those when I think of stopping blogging but the uproars always die down. I dread actually becoming popular because then I will have to deal with too much criticism.

    I was thinking of putting links to some feminist blog posts about Jenna Marble's video but I decided not to because I don't want them to come over here!

  3. An interesting post. In this discussion, there seems to be two main things that get confused. Even though Jenna did a good job in defining her terms.
    A slut is someone who consciously makes herself sexually accessible.
    A Woman who has too much to drink, and becomes sexually accessible (esp against her will) by rape.
    Being the latter does not automatically make one the former.
    The lady in the video spoke about responsibility. Jenna spoke about making bad decisions.

    I feel you've hit the nail on the head, when you talk about interests. There is a certain naivite, where people assume that everyone around them is internally good, rather than that most people will look out for their own interests first and foremost.

    It's a hard lesson to learn.

  4. A while back, there was an article on BB&W about Slutwalk


  5. Hi Anonymous,

    Thanks for your comment. Wow, I almost forgot that most Black women did not support Slutwalk and thought that it was crazy to call yourself a slut. I'll have to go back and read some of those articles. They reasoned that calling themselves sluts would not be beneficial to them in any way and knew that living with that reputation was very unpleasant. These women had common sense I don't know about the women who refuse to protect themselves. Having a bad reputation hurts you even if you think that's mean and unfair and other people are wrong.

  6. Receiving a bad reputation undeservedly, as in the case of Chescaleigh, is horrible. Her story broke my heart.
    That's symptomatic of the double standard Melissa is talking about. And any way you shake it, women keep coming out on the losing end.

    I keep asking myself, why did that man think it was ok to do that? Why didn't that co-worker look out for her? It's a crying shame that no one was here to help her in that situation. Which makes it all the more imperative, that maybe someone will be there to help the next girl... even if one girl sees that video and helps another girl... that is a good thing.

  7. Great post! I actually consider myself a feminist but I am probably the most reasonable and realistic one! I just see things for how they are. However, I am tired of hearing "can't turn a hoe into a housewife" meanwhile all these dogs are capable of being husbands. I guess because men traditionally propose. I'm speaking in general because I finally get to express my feelings on this topic. The only problem I have is the double standard. It is purely social and doesn't focus on morals. If you're a Christian, you believe in one man and one woman after marriage and that the body is the temple. If not a Christian, what is the purpose for people believing it is more wrong for women than men? Some say it's harder for men than women. Of course! Because most men give it up so easily. The other problem is (going back to the housewife thing) when a woman sleeps around we'll say she doesn't deserve respect and doesn't care about herself. Why? She still has a job, cares about her relatives, is a loving and helpful person but just likes sex similar to a lot of men and she shouldn't be respected like anyone else? That's wrong. If we knew someone who was on heavy drugs, people wouldn't disrespect that person although they aren't respecting their bodies and probably hurting other people around them. That article from ask shows that men don't really place as much value on anything else we have to offer (initially) except our sexual history. This is a man's word and women call other women sluts similarly to how a man would call another broke or call to place themselves in a more eligible position for the opposite sex. I think if it's wrong for one it should be wrong for both. I do think it's a jealousy and control issue but I won't get into that. Point is, we all need to value women for personality and ability to be successful like men because when it comes to relationships, promiscuity does not mean infidelity. This is a mans world though...