Saturday, December 8, 2012

Women who Belittle Men Who Prefer Feminine Women

First I have to say that I think many BW are very feminine but of course many are not. Anytime a study comes out saying something comparing BW to other women REMEMBER, these are based on the OPINIONS and PREFERENCES of study participants (anywhere from 10-1000 or more people) not every living human being. Sometimes the participants are not even aware of their preferences (e.g., what a questionnaire indicates a person prefers may be different from what they say out loud) so the study may indicate they don't prefer BW but they may find many attractive, have dated them, and could fall in love with  specific BW. It is not a conspiracy to study such issues. Usually a researcher or student gets a grant or needs to complete a study to get their degree. So they think of something that interests them, their supervisor, or the funding agency. They include race because previous studies included race and it's pretty standard. In fact, studying anything without trying to include different races would be exclusionary and biased because it would be using White people as the norm. If there are significant results related to race then they discuss them in relation to similar previous findings or make up their own theory. With a lot of this research there is no government decision that society needs these studies (e.g., studies about BW dating) but someone is just curious about dating and unfortunately finds results that are not flattering for BW. REMEMBER these studies are done all the time and for every one you hear about there were probably 1000s that you didn't hear about, didn't have the same results, or were flawed. Also, if you are a feminine BW then this post is not about you. Now on to my post :)

Today I read a very interesting post HERE about a study showing that the study participants tended to rate Black people (men and women) as being more masculine and Asian people (men and women) as being more feminine. Also men who had strong preferences for feminine women preferred Asian women over BW. The results did not say that all humans on earth think that all BW are 100% masculine compared to all other women on earth so no need to freak out. We've heard it before, it's nothing new. But what I find interesting are the comments! It made me wonder how many times people have to repeat a criticism before someone will listen. I don't believe that merely being a woman makes you feminine and that anything a woman does must therefore be feminine (e.g., Julie shaves her beard therefore facial shaving and having a beard is feminine. Ridiculous right?). I also don't bother with those arguments that having dark skin is what makes the average Western person think BW are more masculine because that is rarely why people voice the criticism. They say it because of the woman's behaviour, demeanor, feminine facial features and hair, body, clothing, interests, voice etc (e.g., Rosie O'Donnell is not more feminine than Naomi Campbell or Kerry Washington). This 'BW are too hard criticism' plays out like this one (I'll use bad body odour as an example):
Father says: Tia you smell bad.
Tia says: No I don't, all women have smelled like this since the 60s.
Grandma says: Tia you smell bad.
Tia says: No I don't, women today smell different, you're too old fashioned.
Classmate: Tia you smell bad.
Tia says: No I don't, you're just not used to my unique scent.
Friend says: Tia you smell bad.
Tia says: You're just jealous that you don't smell like me and you never will.
Guy on the street says: Miss you smell bad.
Tia says: No I don't, you're just mad because I don't want you. You don't even know what it means to smell good.
Boyfriend says: Tia you smell bad.
Tia says: No I don't, you're just not a real man so you can't handle the way a real woman smells.
Group of 60 random people say: Tia you smell.
Tia says: No I don't this is a conspiracy to keep me down. 

How many times do different people, even those who care about you, have to voice the same criticism before you consider, 'Hmmm, maybe I do smell worse than other women. Maybe I need to start using deodorant soap, mouthwash, scented lotion, perfume, scented detergent, and better smelling products. Maybe I even need to see a doctor. If all of these people say I smell then maybe I do!' Or one can argue and end up smelly, undesirable, and alone. Now just substitute the "smell bad" part with "are too masculine". BW will fight this tooth and nail and deny, deny, DENY that anything about them is any less than the epitome of femininity. Well maybe your idea of femininity is pretty much everyone else's idea of masculinity! You are mixed up and need to find out what other people mean when they say feminine and masculine.

I just don't understand it. Well I'm guessing that of course people don't like being criticized so it is a defense mechanism. So they will talk about why their masculine traits aren't really masculine, every woman has them, there is something wrong with women who are more feminine (e.g., weak, doormats, ugly, vapid, don't carry themselves well etc.), and of course a vast conspiracy against Black women. The denials will rely on some of the examples above, slavery, racism, and frequently the accusation that there is something deficient about the men who prize women who are ultra feminine! The common statement is that men who want traditionally feminine women (e.g., men who want Asian women) are weak so they want a weak woman to control since, according to the commenter being very feminine means being very weak and docile. Oh yes, they think Asian women are weak. Well I'd rather be weak, happily married, placed on a pedestal, and seen as the ideal woman than being strong and having none of that. Are these 'real men' really that into women like you or would they actually prefer feminine women too? Feminine women are just attractive to most heterosexual men and masculine women are not attractive to most heterosexual men. There is nothing wrong with men who want feminine women.

It's really interesting hearing women insult these men since based on their preference, the men are not ambiguous about their sexual preference. On the other hand, if a man said he wanted a strong woman to tell him want to do, wear the pants, who looked and acted very masculine I'd wonder if he wouldn't rather be with a man. I would think that this individual is less masculine and more like a woman. Also for very masculine women, what kind of men do they end up with? I haven't read the study on that one. I wonder how good or long their relationships are when compared to feminine women. Are their men great catches or do they have to settle for whoever will take them? If a woman decided to change and become more feminine would she be happier with the type of partner she ends up with?

I think it's time to forget about all the conspiracies and historical references because the average person saying a specific BW is masculine isn't thinking about those things. They (like most people) have ideas of what  characterizes a feminine woman and a masculine man and when a woman has a lot in common with this masculine man idea then that woman is labeled "masculine". It's like that game, 'One of these things doesn't belong'... among other women the masculine ones just stand out. No need to watch Roots or take a gender studies class to see the difference, a child could see it. I think that some men have to just face the truth that they don't line up well with the masculine ideal just as some women have to face the truth that they don't line up well with the feminine ideal. That does not mean that there is something wrong with people who prefer those ideals...that's why they are called 'ideals' in the first place.

I think the reason for me writing the post is for BW to take a self-examination of their feminine and masculine traits. Read a description of a feminine woman and a masculine man and see who you share more traits with. If you share a lot of traits with the man then you are more masculine, if you share very few then you are more feminine. If you are so great then accept that you are a masculine woman and understand that many people also think you are a masculine woman. Men are not less than real men if you are not attractive to them. You just are not their type and they are not your type either. But if you want other people to think that you are very feminine then....look and act more feminine! You may have to just do more, more than other women, if you don't want to be stereotyped as masculine. Obviously if studies like this bother you so much you actually do want to be more feminine. All BW can do to make the world see us as being more feminine is to just be more feminine. Easiest solution and the most logical.


  1. Great perspective. It amazes me how we will automatically write everything off as racist. I believe in the 'everybody can't be wrong' theory. I can't lie and say that I don't see certain things in black women that I don't see in others. Not everyone of course, but on average. I don't feel that these behaviors are innate in any way. I'm actually documenting things as I go along wrt the reasons for these behaviors

  2. "The common statement is that men who want traditionally feminine women (e.g., men who want Asian women) are weak so they want a weak woman to control since, according to the commenter being very feminine means being very weak and docile. Oh yes, they think Asian women are weak. Well I'd rather be weak, happily married, placed on a pedestal, and seen as the ideal woman than being strong and having none of that."

    I have to agree with you there. I read the comment you're referring to at the other site. My husband and I actually have a very traditional dynamic within our marriage. We both prefer it that way and I don't think there's anything wrong with men who do. My husband is certainly not weak or insecure in his manhood. And I'm not a mindless, doormat either! I think most people have a misunderstanding of relationships of this nature. It's not about a woman letting a man be a man (he's already a man). It's more about a woman expressing herself in a feminine manner that does not conflict with her husband's masculine nature.

    Mary Ellen
    The Working Home Keeper

  3. Wonderful post! I'm with LorMarie; everybody can't be wrong. If an individual constantly hears the same/similar words used to describe their behavior then they need to realize that THEY are the common denominator and need to get a CLUE. Feminine is as feminine does.

  4. *Standing Ovation!*

  5. Thanks so much ladies! It's just so unbelievable that something so normal as a man wanting a highly feminine woman is being seen as an indication that he isn't a real man. The lengths that people will go through to justify staying the same and thinking that they are perfect right?

    No this makes me want to find out about men who prefer masculine women lol!

  6. I think that when growing up and developing many Black women were made to feel less than feminine, both inside and outside their communities and eventually they embraced what was put on them.

    Now embracing and behaving in a more feminine manner feels foreign and uncomfortable. Or maybe some just can't see themselves as feminine and beautiful so they just don't try.

    As for me, I know that I have to walk the line, because I am very opinionated and commanding and some would call it masculine or prefer for a man to have these qualities. However, I refuse to water down my leadership qualities for anyone. Now I try to wrap them in diplomatic delivery and be as friendly as possible to soften the blow.


  7. Ok, I admit I did not read your entire post but I just wanted to comment on this quickly. I did read the part where studies showed that asian people were considered more feminine and blacks were considered more masculine. I think part of the reason why may have to do with physcial features, not mannerisms.

    There are SOME people who consider light skin to be more feminine. There are SOME people who consider keener features to be more feminine. Not to mention asians tend to be smaller in stature. All of these factors combined could be reasons as to why asians are considered more feminine. I can't fairly say its all to do with mannerisms or body language although those can be contributing factors.

    With that said, black women should work with what they have, to appear as feminine as possible.

  8. Anon not because someone is small/petite, asian or light skin,that doesn't automatically makes them feminine. Marilyn Munroe was a very tall woman who was between a size 14 to 16 yet many people regard her as the epitome of femininity. Yes she was white and you may argue that her having white skin makes her feminine, well look at Rosie O Donald, there is nothing feminine about her despite her pale skin.
    Appearance is important yes but you cannot say that just because someone is asian that it automatically makes them feminine. I know some asian women who are very masculine in their mannerism and appearance and if you put them next to a dark skin feminine black woman, they still wouldn't look feminine.

  9. Hi Maria,
    I don't want to give misperception that I personally believe certain features are more feminine. However, the point I was trying to make is there are people who have hold views on what femininity is or is not based on racial perceptions. This is why I put little thought towards these kinds of studies.

  10. marilyn monroe was 5'5 (that's very tall??) and about 140's sizes weren't yesteryears sizes, she was about a 6-10 with vanity sizing. just saying :)